I've spent the past few days celebrating Passover with my family. One of the last things I saw online before shutting down my laptop on Monday was the start of a discussion regarding the selection of Heather Armstrong for the Forum on Workplace Flexibility at the White House. I say "discussion," because to me, that's what it seemed to be. A number of people I follow on Twitter had reactions to it, some positive, and some questioning her selection. Pretty standard stuff, I would think.
Now, before I get into this, let me just say that I have nothing but respect and admiration for what Heather has accomplished, for herself and her family. I am not jealous, and have no ax to grind, truly.
I think it's important to point this out because it seemed like things got out of hand in the time that I was gone. And I also think it's important to point this out, because my first reaction when I saw this announcement on Monday afternoon WAS leaning more toward the questioning-her-selection side of the spectrum. (With no malice, and no envy, mind you, but for reasons of my own that I'll get into in a minute.) Based on how things appeared to play out (at least in my post mortem view, earlier this evening), I wonder what would have happened if I had respectfully voiced those thoughts when I initially had them. Because from where I sit, it didn't seem to go well for those who had.
This saddens me, because regardless of what you, personally, think of Heather, or of her selection to participate in this forum, I don't think I'm out-and-out wrong for simply having questions about it. And frankly, I don't understand why people who do/did have questions tend to get painted with the brush of "jealous"/"hater". It's doubly perplexing because my questions have nothing to do with Heather as a person (never met her! I'm sure she's lovely!) and more to do with her selection for this particular forum. Am I to infer that I'm...now jealous of the selection committee? Or something? I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE. SOMEONE TELL ME.
I don't talk about it much, but I do work full-time for a large company. I love my job, value it, and respect my relationship with my employer. My company is incredible when it comes to workplace flexibility/accommodations, and pretty much the most I ever say here about it is that more workplaces should be like it. I recognize and do not take for granted the great setup that I have. I know most places aren't like that, and even with all the good, I still have Sophie's Choice-esque mornings. The ones where I ask myself if my kid is really sick, and needs me home, or whether s/he'll be okay without me.
The way I feel is this: Heather works for herself, and that's a gamechanger when it comes to the "workplace" concept. It is. And while I see the value of having a mother who blogs participating in this forum, her situation is incredibly unique; lightning in a bottle, if you will. I am not downplaying that her blog empire IS work, and that she has carved out a well-marketed and powerful niche for herself. But can you truly say, however, that she was the best representative of the momblogging world for a forum specifically on workplace flexibility? I'm not being rhetorical, by the way; can you? To the extent you want to argue that she was an appropriate person because has a wide audience to tap from, and from whom to solicit input...did she? I don't know, so I'm (again) not being rhetorical: did she? Those were the questions I had, and had asked myself (uh, until now). I'm obviously interested in your thoughts no matter where you fall, but regardless, why is any one of us right or wrong on this? Why does anyone need to be?
I hesitate to push "publish" on this, because I really and truly don't want to be incendiary or divisive, and it's my fervent hope that this doesn't come across as such. However, I need to speak up, because I don't like feeling as though questioning things online -- respectfully -- is inherently construed as some form of personal attack. And I certainly don't like hearing that we as bloggers should be happy simply because one of our own was selected. Questioning things isn't an automatic indication of hatred or envy, and the implication that we should be happy by mere virtue of the fact that a blogger was selected is, in my view, demeaning to all of us. My own questions and my concerns -- as a working mother in corporate America -- revolved around whether the best cross-section of representatives were chosen for the forum. I don't want to feel bad about that.
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75 comments:
I don't think you're being divisive, or stating an uncommon opinion-I just think you actually stated it in a rational manner.
And I agree. I think one needs to GO to a workplace to truly understand the issue. I've been a work out of the home mom, and work at home mom, and right now a stay at home mom. And my reason for leaving my position working out of the home was because of a total lack of flexibility from my employer.
(Ironically, I was working for a government agency on Capitol Hill)
Anyway. Well said. That's all I'm trying to say. :)
I am just catching up on all of this too (DAMN PASSOVER) but, um, obviously *I* was the best choice.
AHEM.
Seriously, though, I'm glad you wrote this and, well, asked the same questions as I - also a mom who has, up until very recently, worked full-time in a big office - asked. And saying that JUST BECAUSE YOU QUESTION IF HEATHER WAS THE RIGHT PERSON TO CHOSE FOR SOMETHING ABOUT WORKPLACE FLEXIBILITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT OH MY GOD YOU HATE DOOCE. I have met her...she is very lovely.
As always, you make your point more eloquently than anyone else. And you didn't even have to resort to the use of a TMNT Snuggie. That's grace.
But seriously. I'm no mom, but as a full time worker, with plenty of working parent friends at my workplace, I cannot imagine being in their situation and thinking Heather Armstrong is the person I want representing me. And I say this as A) a NOT MOMMY BLOGGER and B) A person with no designs on ever being a famous mommyblogger, in other words, not jealous. I wouldn't want Heather's life for a variety of reasons (being the spark for these debates chief among them).
I have been hesitant to add my .02 because I feel like everything has been said. But after reading this I realize that every voice is important and as long as it's respectful then it adds to the discussion. SO I SHALL BE SILENT NO MORE!
When I first heard about Heather I scratched my head because I didn't see how her situation was representative of working women in America. I mean c'mon, she has a UNIQUE work enviornment. She has worked hard to get where she is so I am not begruding her that. And there are probably TONS of stressful day-to-day details that I'm clearly not aware of.
But I know she doesn't have to ask her boss if she can leave a smidge early to pick her kid up from daycare because daycare lady has a doctor's appointment.
She doesn't have to get that sick-to-her-stomach feeling about who stays home with the baby that's running a fever. Work deadlines. Child who needs her.
She doesn't have to make up work time she spent pumping in a public bathroom by coming in early or staying late. And then felt horrid guilt pumping while co-workers gave her shit for not working as much as they did. But then felt guilty for not being able to feed her child. And in the end her milk dried up at four months because she wasn't able to keep up with it. Something that still haunts her to this very day.
So what I'm saying is, I see no reason why it's wrong to raise the question of her being the best representative. I'm not jealous of her going to the White House. I'm not jealous of her blogging success because I'd never want that much attention. It's just that there are a lot more working parents like me and the majority of the people I read online than like Heather.
And that's all anyone was trying to say.
I'm just sorry I never spoke up when my friends were saying exactly what I was thinking. The mob mentality can be frightening and THAT is what is sad about this situation. Not the asking questions.
I think it may have been because she and her husband have been outspoken on health care reform and the issue of self-employment and health care. And part of the issue of workplace flexibility is employer-provided health plans and the problems people have with insurance when self-employed. This is my guess.
I don't think you're being decisive. And I don't know if the White House was specifically looking for a mommyblogger. If they were, my guess up there would be off base.
(Disclaimer: I read Metalia and Dooce, and love both blogs. Just my opinion here.)
"Questioning things isn't an automatic indication of hatred or envy, and the implication that we should be happy by mere virtue of the fact that a blogger was selected is, in my view, demeaning to all of us."
YES. That was my point when I saw what was happening, and that's what scares me most: that questioning has become synonymous with "jealousy" or negativity.
Thank you for writing this, babe, and for publishing it. Very well said, and in my opinion not divisive at all.
I think you've very rationally and politely shared your viewpoint (one I happen to agree with by the way). Brava for being able to speak your mind without the name calling and personal insinuations that sometimes seem to occur.
I don't understand this whole "you can't question the big bloggers or you're jealous and a hater" thing that goes on. The questions I saw were calm and rational--is Heather the best person to speak to this BIG issue? I don't think it's wrong for us to question these things. I've never met her, think she's probably nice enough, but her situation is no where near mine. Not even in the same universe--so I don't think she's the right one to speak for MY experience. That doesn't mean I don't think she's lovely, or am jealous, or hate her. Why that becomes the focus is beyond me.
I'm so glad you wrote this and said what I wanted to but couldn't find the words to start that particular post..
This is a serious issue. Work place flexibility affects families and marriages and careers. To say, "I really hope there's a great representative who can verbalize what MY FAMILY goes through on a daily basis" is not jealous or petty, it's responsible.
And I respect Heather enough to know that if she had been posed the question "how are you going to best represent working parenting bloggers?" she would have graciously answered instead of demanding blind acceptance the way her "fans" (that's a weird word, I know) did.
You expressed this very well. Amen to all of it.
There's a strange reaction that happens when someone brings Dooce into an online conversation. I think it's because there is genuinely frightening animosity toward her that comes out in her comments section and spills everywhere else. So those who love her (both her personal friends and her fans) are (probably unconsciously) on the lookout for the crazies, and are protective of her. And that protection occasionally causes a sometimes unreasonable response to reasonable dialogue.
Nicely done, my friend.
And now, because this whole thing has frankly tired me out (man, it sucks when you have friends on both sides of the divide!), I just want to say that I love your line "it seemed like things got out of hand in the time that I was gone" because all I can picture is you acting as grand overlord of the Twitosphere, keeping everyone in line. :)
You make a point that I hadn't considered, nor have I followed any drama resulting from her choice.
I will, however, point out to your commenter that mentioned about taking time out of work and making up for it (re: those mom's that work out of the home), that there are two sides to that particular coin. I'm an independent contractor, and as such I don't have an employer but rather several people I perform work for.
I'm contractually obligated to meet deadlines and agreed-upon work products, and as a work-at-home mom there is definitely a trade-off. My kids get sick, I don't have any sick leave or vacation time to take to be home with them. If I get sick? Still working and miserable because no work equals no pay. Family emergency? Major surgeries? Power outages? All of these things directly impact my bottom line. You all have laws to protect you from being fired should you need to take family leave. The independent contractor? Siyanara and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
My point is that Heather may have a point (in line with the commenter that mentioned her and Jon's vocal support of health care reform). She is a business owner and an employer herself, so all these things affect her in some way or another (being a flexible workplace, etc.)
Could they have chosen someone that's more in the trenches, so to speak? Sure. Does this nullify what Heather has to offer to the panel/discussion? I don't think so.
I also don't think questioning or creating a discussion around the major or well-known bloggers should be counted as hating. You don't create a conversation by giggling and smiling in agreement blindly. And it's an unfair conclusion for those bloggers and their most faithful followers to come to when others may dare to disagree.
I confronted this issue as well many moons ago when I still worked in an office and I still, even as a SAHM, feel the same way.
Dropping the kids off with someone who is not you. Working 40+ hours away from home for someone who gets really Then the commuting. That was not a bad part for me as our town is small, but that part is a struggle for a lot of women. Its not a discussing about which on is harder, Heather probably has a harder job than I did. It's just not representative of "Workplace" for the typical working Mom. Mainly, her schedule is flexible. That's the big difference. She may have deadlines and such, but if the school calls her to come get her sick kid, her boss isn't going to write her up. Most working Moms face THOSE kind of choices.
I tend to stay away from any conversation that's Dooce-sprung because it is always filled with so! much! drama!
But you did it well here and said what I think many of us are feeling.
Because she is such a big name, she has fans. Fans are very loyal people and knee-jerk react. And the people who disagree with them - and Heather - are Wrong! And Stupid! And yes, even Jealous!
I agree with one of the comments that I think her reason to be there was more due tothe health care issue, because if it was for "workplace flexibility" only, they sure as shit missed the mark.
I have no ill-will towards her and much to contrary belief, am not jealous, but her particular situation is so unique that she can be no more representative of workplace flexibility than Obama can be as a black man living in DC, ya know?
That's not to say her ideas and input could not be valuable on the panel. But maybe they should have looked a little deeper for actual parents (NOT JUST MOTHERS; my husband is a parent too last time I checked) who live the life of being a working parent outside the home.
Ok, I'm done. Thanks for writing this. I was too chicken to.
Nicey done, Metalia. Really. Thank you. As one of the three (no, seriously, you guys, there were THREE OF US. THAT'S IT) people being indicted here in what has been characterized as a "Twitter fight," I am relieved and thrilled to see a post and discussion emerge whereas I don't feel like I have to defend myself against accusations that I'm only hurting the sisterhood. I can't believe how it went down, to the point where Dooce tweeted about how people (HELLO, US) still didn't like her! Well, no wonder, frankly.
I have lingering rage, clearly.
Jessalee, you and I are very similar -- I'm a freelancer who works with individual clients as an individual contractor, and while I don't think by saying this I am downplaying our challenges (Talk to me about the evenings I sat with toothpicks propping up my eyelids because I couldn't afford childcare for a project, or I was sick, and still had a deadline), I think that's a hard thing to apply to a forum like this.
You can't come up with a policy for how independent contractors are handled, because it's just not practical or realistic. I often have four or five clients at a time, and my issues don't stem from the individual projects, but the sum of my work's parts. That's not a problem anyone else can solve, and it's not something I'd feel comfortable talking about at a workplace flexibility forum.
The only aspect I'd feel was applicable to me was broader access to affordable childcare, and that point alone isn't enough for me to feel like I can speak effectively to workplace flexibility, you know? But that doesn't mean that my life doesn't suck sometimes, hardcore.
Interestingly, like first commenter Jess, I mostly stay home and freelance because there was no flexibility (at ALL) in my former career(s), and since my husband has an equally intense career, we had to make choices. And having Heather Armstrong, with her unique situation, speak to this issue is not going to make it any easier for me when/if I choose to return to the workforce full-time.
I think that anyone who works for themselves (as someone who owns and runs a small business) should only participate in that type of forum if they are speaking as an employer who provides flexibility to their employees. Other than that capacity, it's not appropriate nor representative.
I'm in a unique position, I guess, of not being much of a Dooce follower AND really pleased that she was selected to speak at that forum.
I'm someone who works (writes) from home and struggles with (no) healthcare - I thought it was great to have someone who I felt represented my interests for a change.
Not to say that other people's experiences or less valid or in the minority. I know I'm in the minority - a very slim, tiny little minority - but I've found that my kind of work is usually left out of the equation.
And one more thing: I am not about to put the interests of the blogging community above this issue. Am I really supposed to be so happy that a blogger was chosen that I'm willing to forego the actual issues at hand? I don't give a rip whether a blogger was picked. I want an ACTUAL PERSON, with ACTUAL, CURRENT EXPERIENCE with this near-universal issue to represent families struggling with this.
I'm sorry, but if Sarah Jessica Parker was chosen to speak to this issue, people would have been all ding dong! Her experiences is unrealistic! Whaaa?
Does this mean I hate SJP, or am envious of her?
I really resented the notion that I was supposed to be so! thrilled! that a mommyblogger was chosen, instead of focusing on the actual issues.
But ... Crystal, the health care issue was not really the issue at hand. In theory, your problem has already been addressed (ha?) with the HCR bill.
I posted a comment and deleted it for reasons that don't matter, so know I'm trying again-
Blogger jodifur said...
I think this post asks all the right questions, without jealousy or malice.
I work PT and I still have those days, because even though I work PT I still work, and there are times I HAVE TO BE IN THE OFFICE. Luckily, my job is pretty flexible all other times, and I can switch my days or work from home or whatever.
I think this is an important conversation, I just hope they picked the right people to have it. And that includes ALL the people that were there.
For a moment, I did forget that Heather is an employer now as well as a work at home mom. So perhaps that combined with her past/present insurance woes did make her seem like a good candidate. She may not be a good representative as an employee, but as a small business employer, I can see it. (for the record I'm a much bigger metalia fan than dooce fan and you did a great job with this post)
I think that Heather's post about her trip to the WH makes a good point. She has several perspectives. I disagree with you hat just because she's not in a typical workplace, she's not right for the forum.
I'm in Canada, where you get a full year of paid leave (60% of your salary, I believe, but still) - but only if you are not self-employed. I worked as a nanny for a self-employed woman. When she had her second baby, she was forced back to work far earlier than she could go (she had placenta previa, premature birth, hemorrhaging, emergency hysterectomy) because she was self-employed and could not afford the time she needed to heal properly.
What Heather said in that article Metalia links to is so true: some time soon the government will have to say, "yeah, it's nice to tell employers how they need to do better, but now we, the government, will bring workplace change from the top down." And when that happens, I hope that self-employed individuals will benefit from that change as much as those working in a more traditional workplace.
Either way, this is a respectful discussion and I didn't follow the drama, but it's too bad that people get so snitty about tiny amounts of dissent.
I agree with you completely. I LOVE, love, love my full time job and seriously would not want to be a SAHM (at this point anyway) so no jealousy here. I do not think she was even close to the best choice to represent.
Thank you for not being afraid to voice your opinion!
My question is, isn't it kind of a bit arrogant to assume that Heather was selected to represent mom bloggers?
I mean, to be honest, the fraction of the country who really cares about blogging is smaller than the fraction of the country who cares about woman-owned small businesses.
Heather gets attention because of her blog, yes, but it has been a long time since she was on TV primarily as a blogger. She's been on as a mom who suffered from post partum depression. She's on HGTV, not as a blogger, but just as Heather.
I've seen reactions like "well, NO other bloggers are like her, she's a poor example" and "wouldn't it have been nice if a mother who worked outside the home was chosen?"
To that, I think, why have we assumed that she's there to represent BLOGGERS instead of moms with small businesses? And there WERE other people on the panel - was there not a single working mother there, outside of Dooce?
I'm just saying, the whole thing seems ridiculous, because who even said "And representing bloggers, Heather Armstrong?"
Oh, thank you thank you thank you. You've said this so well, asked the exact same questions I asked for the exact same reasons. You also seem to have the exact same reaction to the backlash as I did. And you said it so much better then I could in my fractured, 140 character thoughts.
I never, ever read any of the questions as to why Heather was chosen as criticism of her or her company, but criticism of the WH and their choice. And to be blindly happy that “one of our own” was chosen to attend – no, I don’t get that either.
I think you spoke about this perfectly, my friend.
When all of the accusations and such started I just rolled my eyes for all of the reasons you mentioned above. Questioning things does not always (pr even, often) equal jealousy.
I'm glad you published this. xo
I couldn't agree with you more on this -- both on the issue itself (i.e., that Heather is not exactly representative of working moms because of her highly specific and unique situation) and on how the discussion of the issue gets all bent out of shape (which it shouldn't, because it is not a PERSONAL thing).
I find a lot of online discussions to be immensely frustrating because they so often become overly personal and subjective rather than productive and objective. I'm so glad that you posted this very level-headed and rational perspective.
Sorry, I should clarify that she is not the best representative to speak to this issue of workplace flexibility -- she's certainly a working mom, and I don't question that. I do think, though, that working for oneself is wildly different than working for a business or similar.
Great post, Metalia!
I agree. I don't understand WHY if we want to question the selection that it is because we're jealous or hating. I do not agree with the opinion that because she's a woman and a blogger, I have to give her a hearty congrats! That's now how the world works! We're allowed to questions things!
And yes, Heather had a job before blogging. But she wasn't a parent then, was she? So it's different.
I also have to echo something I saw on Twitter that not just moms have these kinds of issues. A lot of people do. I do and I'm single. Basically anyone who has to balance work and life.
Yes. I agree with everything and have all the same questions.
I wish you didn't have to write this with so many "it's not personal, I'm not trying to cause controversy" phrases because that should go without saying. We are allowed to think critically and ask questions without being called jealous haters.
I would've liked to participate in that forum, but I was working full-time at a hospital to provide for my two sons...lol! I've been asking my employer for 3 YEARS to let me work from home (I do a job very amenable to telecommuting) but here I still sit. sigh! Regarding Heather A being asked to join that forum, I'm neither here nor there about it.
I think you have expressed what many thought very diplomatically. I agree with you 100% but would not have dared to say so on twitter on because it gets so ugly there so quickly sometimes. (which to me is a bigger problem than doocegate. Nicely done.
I can't wrap my head around the people who have so eagerly characterized a few general questions about Heather's participation as a fight or a personal attack. I think Leah said it best on that LADIES STOP THE HURTY post, the aggressiveness coming from the "be nice" camp is just . . . icky. Creating breathless drama where there was none, well, it sure doesn't do much to dispel those stereotypes about women, does it?
One of the (many) reasons I don't get blindly excited about a mommyblogger doing [whatever] is because of the way the community occasionally behaves. I'm not proud of it, and I don't claim it as my own.
Jonniker, I absolutely agree with you and could have worded myself better. I didn't mean to imply that being an independent contractor really had much to do with the workplace flexibility. By its very nature it is flexible, and I set my own hours (a definite bonus!).
That portion of my response was more directed at Samantha to let her know while we do have some benefits, it's not always rainbow-farting ponies and ice-cream cones on this side of the fence either. It's only that way on pajama Fridays.
I'm glad that you wrote this. I've had a post in my head and I've been too prickly to make sense of how I feel.
It bothered me deeply to see a big deal made out of what a tiny handful of people were saying. I agreed with their QUESTIONS, just the whole process of let's think this out, let's talk, let's joke about it, let's keep this discussion alive.
And the backlash reminded me of a slap to the back of the hand and all the negative emotions you'd associate with that.
A few people discussing one woman's "success" doesn't anti-celebrate what anyone else is achieving and certainly doesn't harm us as a community.
Squashing healthy conversations, even acerbic or off-hand ones DOES harm us as community.
I worked 50 hour weeks when my first son was little. I went back to work at 6 weeks. I have BIG HUGE FEELINGS on workplace flexibility so I can absolutely sympathize with any woman (not BLOGGER, not MOMMYBLOGGER) hoping aloud that her situation and her feelings were going to be somehow represented in a public forum.
It's not about Heather at all. I've met her too, she's lovely and quite tall.
I think questioning and disagreeing are fantastic and I didn't necessarily see it portrayed as a Twitter fight.
I myself had a knee jerk reaction when I heard she was attending, because her situation at hand does not seem to lend itself to expertise on "workplace flexibility."
But then I realized that there are other factors involved, and that just because people aren't currently "in the trenches" as we might see the trenches doesn't mean they can't share meaningful and interesting comments.
I think as more moms who really do struggle (and valiantly so) with this issue talk about it (I honestly don't read a lot of posts about this particular topic - though I know many working moms and families with working families struggle constantly with this), there will be more visibility and attention to those bloggers.
What is bothersome to me (and why I felt like writing about it in a not so eloquent way) is that it's often the same people harping about Heather Armstrong, and unfortunately, for those few that do ask legitimate questions in a way that's not attention seeking, it gets spun out of control by those who are just, well, seeking attention.
It's unfortunate that a few people asking "Why is she going?" (which let's be honest, that's not how some of the tweets were being fired) turns into "Well Britney Spears would have been a better choice."
I watched the breakout session that Heather was a part of LIVE on the internet.
And actually, if anyone else watched, she didn't have much to say. Probably because after listening to everyone in the room, her situation didn't really fit the forum's purpose. Most everyone in the room, even small business owners, had more than two employees. The entire breakout session was about 'best practices' and 'time-sharing employees.'
She rarely spoke, once about health care for her family, and very quickly the issue was glossed over as everyone else in the room started talking about joint PPOs and freelance employee HC.
After watching them talk about workplace flexibility for two hours; cubical sharing, medical emergency leave, overtime, etc., I couldn't help watching her and thinking that she really didn't represent the type of group the forum was focusing on. The only flexibility she can provide, is her own.
Was that her fault? Absolutely not. Did they maybe pick the wrong person? Probably.
So my point is that it's silly people got so upset when SMART, INTELLIGENT women were questioning her selection. Because they were right to question, she didn't fit. She doesn't represent an employer who has the power to provide flexibility.
Jessalee: I appreciate your feedback on at-home freelance work as you're right, there are two sides to every coin. I have friends who work from home that have kids in FT daycare, and friends who work from home while their children are around. Every situation has different pros and cons and I totally understand that.
But what we know about Heather is that she is home with Jon and her assistant (some of the time? all of the time? does she even have an assistant any more?) and is able to nurse Marlo. That is the only thing I was really addressing and I didn't mean to imply that if you work from home there are "rainbow-farting ponies and ice-cream cones" as I know that's not the case. Every situation has stressful moments that need to be overcome. I was given a lot of flack for taking time out to pump at work which was beyond crippling for an exhausted mother back to work after 10 weeks. That is what I was referencing, and didn't intend for it to be a sweeping judgement in regards to other deadlines or sick days.
I totally agree with you that people should be able to express their opinion without being jumped on. Your post was, as usual, well thought out and well written. I think the thing that bothers me the most about this whole situation is that Heather never asks for people to defend her, and then she is somehow blamed for it. She has no control over what people say about her- good or bad.
Marcie: I wasn't able to watch it, but if that's true that underscores my original raised-eyebrow about Heather's participation. If someone is invited to join a high-profile discussion on a situation that directly impacts my family, I want them chosen on the basis of what they can contribute, not their popularity or even the eyeballs they can bring to the issue at hand. It doesn't mean I begrudge her success in any way, shape, or form, it simply means I would have preferred her seat be held by someone who had a deeper stake in this.
Metalia, thanks for writing this post, and lending your credibility to the argument.
As one of the big three accused of starting a twitter fight, and also one of the "bullies" who is always harping on Dooce's accomplishments, I can say that I was not begrudging anybody a trip to the White House by questioning the choice. In fact, at first I didn't give a shit about the whole thing!
But then, after receiving DMs and emails from members of MY COMMUNITY, who WERE very concerned about this choice, I felt compelled to speak up. Because yes, I do have a community, and they would like to be heard, as well. In fact, people had to spell out for me why this was a big deal -- at first -- because I couldn't get it. As a stay at home parent with a flexible work schedule, I wasn't able to feel how important it was right out of the gate.
Which, I think only underscores the whole issue: step out of your own shoes for five seconds, people! Anyway, not trying to poop in your comment section here, just trying to make things clearer and post the thought that, yes, people have different ideas of "community" and perhaps we shouldn't all be so quick to assume we all define it the same way.
Exactly right. Heather is no more the right person for that particular Forum than I am. But SHE has the voice and the visibility.
I'm one of those people who disagreed aloud (on Twitter, if such a thing's possible). I did it very passively, because I was still VERY upset. Annoyed when Pioneer Woman was offered a movie deal, but mostly because I saw that the first time when it was called "Sweet Home Alabama", but whatever.
But this? This was just not cool. Nothing against Heather, SERIOUSLY, but it was very much like inviting Christopher Reeve to a tap-dancing seminar. Sorry. It is what it is.
I still feel that way. As a working mother who has worked through four days after her due date and was back six weeks after the birth of her child. Who has had to use sick leave and vacation to stay home with sick children. Who pumped in a janitor's closet. THAT MOM. I am that mom.
And yes, I was angry. Still am.
I think I'm allowed to be.
However, I'm grateful that the commission was held. It's a step in the right direction, for sure.
Like Marcie, I watched some of the Breakout Session that Heather participated in. I am not a mother (yet) but I am a business professional with experience in this type of forum. I agree that the discussion was quite "technical" from the business owner/executive perspective, and it seemed that so much of what was said didn't lend to Heather's input. And she didn't offer much.
I wasn't expecting her to go all Norma Ray and scream BLOGGERS ARE EMPLOYERS/EMPLOYEES/PEOPLE TOO - but I was a little disappointed, that after all of the hype there was little participation in the actual discussions. Although, perhaps the entire thing was made positive by all of the people watching online and on CSPAN...maybe the purpose was that we all learn something and continue the discussion? Or maybe I'm just being Pollyanna.
I haven't looked into who else was chosen for the forum, but on the face of it, there's maybe women out there who are more representative. ME for example even though I live and work in Canada so also wouldn't really represent Americans but is someone who works full time, has a kid and one more on the way, and maybe is in the same boat as more people than Heather. Oh wait, so are YOU!
But I love dooce.com, I love Heather's humour and writing skillz, and, hell, she has great on-camera presence, which are maybe the important things for this kind of forum.
KT, you make a good point! Would I have ever spent two hours watching a WH forum online if it weren't for all the 'drama?' Probably not. So in that regard, her presence got my attention. :)
However, it was a let down. It was a lot of technical, government chatter, hundred dollar word, blah. Honestly the whole time I kept trying to figure out how many tax dollars were spent to hold the forum. Money most definitely needed elsewhere these days.
It reminded me of elected 'committees' in large corporations. You know, "you've been elected to give your ideas on how we can better maximize our corporate visualization ladder." (What?!) Everyone brings their lunch, spouts out ideas, furiously takes notes, nodding their heads, only to actually get nothing accomplished when it's all said and done.
Unfortunately, do I think anything will come from this forum? Probably not. When Obama gave his closing statement he said, "I look forward to reading what you came up with and working with you all again in the years to come." So, like most things, they will probably have another forum to discuss this forum, then another to discuss that, then another, and on my god I'll probably die of boredom or old age before anything changes.
Sundry, from what I saw, she definitely didn't represent your situation or most people's work/family situation at all. Although there were a lot of CEOs there who did so fingers crossed my 'forum in a forum' idea gets debunked!
Metalia, you said it perfectly. All I can do is echo what everyone else has really already said. I work for a fantastic company, but still... I was back at work 7wks post c-section. I pumped in empty offices, in closets, and was walked in on. I have to use my own sick days if my little girl is sick. I have to deal with the guilt of taking her to a dayhome when I'm not sure I should.
Dooce has accomplished SO much, that can't be argued. But she's her OWN BOSS. So she's NOT AT ALL representative of typical working moms.
And yeah, her community REALLY needs to chill out.
I'm with you, baby.
I wish I had time to read every comment. This is such a good discussion. I read both your blog and hers as well. I agree with folks who have said that "fans" of Heather Armstrong can be incredibly loyal. I also think she probably has some good input, as folks pointed out that she and John have been pretty passionate on this issue. That being said, I question her as a selection as well. I agree she has created quite the empire for herself...but it's just not the same as dealing with employer policies. So...I am basically agreeing with you. I just wanted to applaud your statements about the nastiness that can happen when you post your opinion that may be different. I will never understand why it is such a horrible thing for me to have my own opinion about something and why folks get so horribly mean about it. I think your post was incredibly well written and has many good points. You have an informed, educated opinion. We are all entitled to that and should feel free to do that without judgement.
thank you, metalia, for your intelligent post. i don't keep up with play-by-plays of the weekly blogrumbles, instead usually catching up at the end of it like you. how these things explode into ginormous feuds with namecalling and judgments, i just do not understand. i hope more people can follow your example and think before spewing to the masses.
i'm a working mom who keeps a blog. occasionally i comment on another blogger's posts to share my thoughts. i don't comment often, and i don't like to think of myself as a "mommyblogger" because of things like this. it's undermining and embarrassing. with so many unique viewpoints to consider, how can anyone expect their voice to truly be heard? by the president? because they twittered? about how much they hate heather armstrong? why is it commonplace now for seemingly not-so-big issues to armageddonize themselves on the internet?
i too questioned heather's participation in the forum...but i believe, as others have said, we should be questioning WHO decided to choose heather to participate in the workplace forum rather than why she's qualified. please do keep posing the honest questions!
Compared to the general pool of working parents, Heather is a distinct anomaly. Her spouse also works at home. She's also loaded. This affords her a high degree of inherent flexibility, plus the resources to purchase as much extra flexibility as she needs or wants. This would seem to indicate that she's a poor choice to represent the average American worker. The people who got all wiggy about this, IMO, are wound too tightly and take too much Insanity License from the quasi-anonymous medium of the Internet.
Also, as a feminist, I cannot express how much it annoys the ever-loving crap out of me that men are allowed to disagree and have it be just that, a disagreement, while women disagree and are catfighting or failing to support each other or some bull. WIMMIN IZ PEEPL TO. How are we still having this issue in 2010? I ASK YOU. All you who think the battle of feminism has been won and crazy man-hating feminists need to pipe down, take notice.
I don't follow Dooce, and I read her blog only very occasionally, so I have no axe to grind in either direction, but here is my thought:
A forum on flexible work arrangements needs to include people who already HAVE flexible work arrangements, and someone who runs what is essentially a small business from her house, along with her husband and at least one employee, should have some valuable opinions about working and productivity while dealing with a family, children, dogs, etc. in her home, which is also her workplace. So while the questions you raised are totally legit, and I 100% agree that HA isn't going to have a good perspective on what working moms who work in a regular office have to go through, I think it makes sense to include her in the group for her perspective from the POV of the benefits of the flexible, work-from-home, non-traditional schedule environment. The End.
My initial response to the selection of Dooce was it seemed akin to a forum on, say women recovering their pre-pregnancy weight selecting a wealthy celebrity who has daily home visits from a state of the art personal trainer, a personal chef, and a nanny.
The selection, in my view, was no representative of the majority of workers of any stripe.
Essentially, Dooce Goes to Washington was a free fun jaunt, that increased Dooce's networking and income potential. Ok, that's fine, but I think the White House could have found articulate real examples among middle or lower income women.
On the plus side, Dooce is supportive of women so whatever she had to say I'm sure was positive.
The long and the short of it is that these forums have little bearing on telework, so it's not worth getting worked up about. (Not that you did.)
I think I need to understand the forum better. I would hope that Heather isn't the sole "working mom" representative, because her situation is, as you say, EXTREMELY unique. If she is the representative for her particular niche, then cool. I just hope that they have some moms with traditional 9 to 5s, as well as work at home moms and stay at home moms and every kind of mom, really.
i'm glad i was at seder & missed it all, too. and frankly, i don't really have an opinion either way since i'm a stay-at-home-mom, the job i chose & knew going into it i had little flexibility.
I think her choice was reflective of those of us who have to buy our own health insurance, and how freaking expensive, limited, and frustrating it is. I don't know if you've ever had to buy your own policy, like the Armstrongs and, well, my family. Thing is I pay as much, if not more, than a large corporation does for medical benefits. I have no maternity coverage because it just isn't offered to individuals in the state of Colorado. I can be dropped at any time. They can decide to no longer pay on a new found condition. It's a losing proposition, but one I have to take. I think Heather was speaking to that aspect.
And I don't think you're a hater.
Thank goodness for someone saying what no one else would. What I SHOULD have said. But honestly I didn't because I didn't want to feed the machine that is The Emperors New Clothes ...otherwise known as The Dooce Phenomenon.
The whole this is a ridiculous joke, which only continues to undermine the working woman in America. Hey White House...YOU DON'T GET IT. Call me we can chat.
Yes, it is sad that any time a woman questions another woman's place or representation in an event, it is downgraded to a catfight. Which only serves to diminish the conversation. Which is probably the intent, of course. Label it as a catfight, so that folks will not pay attention. Smart move!
Oddly enough, I am in a similar situation as Dooce. My husband and I have a business together, we bandy back and forth childcare throughout the day. Somedays are more flexible than others. But damned straight, I would rather be doing THIS, than having to march time in an office, reporting to someone else. So yes, Dooce's place on a forum for workplace flexibility is a bit laughable.
Still, I could care less that Dooce is on the forum. Let's face it - a group of highly-privileged women are going to sit around and chat for several days, then head back to their lives, with little effect or change on OUR lives.
If anyone really watched much of this forum they'd have seen that many of the participants seem like they are too old to any longer have work/child issues. Now they may have other family issues (parents, spouses, etc.), but they don't have what most of us see as work/life balance in our current lives. Heather was one of the few who did.
You will never find one person that can accurately represent all working parents. A waitress' troubles and schedules are not mine, neither are a doctor's, ditto for a famous blogger, actress, or any of it. Would you be questioning this if Heather wrote for the New York Times instead of her own site?
I think she represents one aspect of earning a living and parenting children, and it's unrealistic to have the expectation that the White House find someone who represents everyone.
Marcie
I watched it as well. She did not have much to contribute and when she did it was about her own health care dilemma. I read the tweets of those saying," she's going to be the voice of us bloggers, and she'll let them know what REAL mother do." I didn't get that at all.
Metalia, I appreciate your composure in writing this. I agree very much that dissenting opinions don't equate to hate.
Someone probably said this already, but my impression is that she was chosen not because she's exactly representative of the average American woman, but because hundreds of thousands average American women read her blog. It was probably a smart move by the White House - she got the word out about the forum perhaps more than any other avenue, and brought attention to an issue that is really important to most American women.
I completely agree with you. Working for yourself and working for someone else are two TOTALLY different things. And I don't think that you questioning it was hateful, jealous, or anything like that! I'm a working mother -- I drive to and from work each day, deal with a sometimes-cranky toddler in the morning, have to get him dressed each and everday...big difference from rolling over in your bed to check your email on your iPhone each morning. I love Heather's blog and read it every day but yeah, I think they could have picked a better "candidate" so-to-speak.
Bravo. I could not agree with you more, and I also have no ax to grind. I'm nothing but ambivalent about the person. The selection, though, is causing me to ask the same questions (to myself, pretty much just in my head). I'm alarmed and disappointed at how much hate the internetz have had (lately?) and how quickly a person will turn on someone for simply having an opinon.
Anyway, you're not being divisive. Thank you for writing this.
You want to talk about needing work place flexibility: try being a man at a Fortune 500 company (who's not an executive) who wants to take paternity leave. Barry -- call me.
http://www.dadcentric.com/2009/05/a-family-man-leaves.html
Uh, just wow. So I read Dooce's post the other day about her going to Washington, and I thought: "mmm...random?" and then went on with my day. I haven't followed twitter in a long, long while, so I had no idea. I saw her recent post and figured it was some actual crazy hate directed at Dooce, which frankly, there might be...But Jonniker? Sundry? What?
The tone of Dooce's recent post made me think that the comments directed her way must have been of a different tone all together.
But then I think that I only actually heard about Dooce five years ago after reading Jonna...so, yeah.
Thanks for writing this. I've tried -- twice now -- to post about this same topic (guess I'm lumped in with the people she was ranting about today) but you've said it much better than I could have thought of saying it.
I'm not a mom, but I have worked in many different places (including a stint of being freelance for a while), and I would have hated to be pigeonholed in the time that I was freelancing. I have worked in terrible working conditions for bosses that demanded control of not just my working life but also great portions of my personal life (where I was living, who my housemate was, etc.) Not everyone is entirely who they are right now, if that makes sense. We all have past experiences that make us who we are as people and employees (or employers). I'm assuming Heather has had jobs elsewhere in addition to now being an employer herself. I'm assuming she knows what it's like to work and juggle an outside life. I'm assuming she wasn't independently wealthy before her blog went full time. (And, by "assuming," I mean it's obvious that in order to get "dooced" for blogging you kind of need a job in the first place, right? So she's been employed by others, as has her husband.)
I read her interview on Blogher and I have to say that she has a grasp on reality and what the outside-the-home workplace can be like, for moms and dads and for single people. I'm often expected to do things for work or stay later for things because I don't have children (although I am married). I don't have the excuse that I have to rush off and pick up my children, so I have to stay later than my paid working hours more often than the parents (and I work in education, not as a teacher). I know Heather is a mom, but she was even speaking to that lack of flexibility for childless people as well. Why? Well, I'm assuming it's because she remembers what it was like before she had a child.
...Kind of like how she remembers what it was like working outside the home before her blog took off. Funny how that works, isn't it? We aren't just people who are the sum of what we are right now. We have the ability to remember the past and our reasons for doing or not doing something (including quitting a job to be self-employed, which may or may not include lack of flexibility in the workplace after you've had children).
I'm not a big fan of Heather, although I do occasionally look at the pictures on her website. (Sorry, I really like Chuck the dog.) That said, I don't understand the "I don't want her representing me." She's NOT representing you. There were other people there to represent themselves. She's there to represent her views (which many times do differ from my own anyway, since she and her husband have a lot of views I don't agree with) and her past and her background in lack of workplace flexibility for women, single or married, with or without children, because she's been all of those things. She hasn't been me, and only I can fully represent myself and who I've been.
I don't see her as my representative at all, which is probably why I'm not in the least bothered by her presence there or even really care what she had to say while she was there. I'm glad they are seeking opinions on this matter, however, because compared to many other countries, we are very far behind on leave flexibility for all people, children or no. That needs to change, but what Heather Armstrong says isn't going to become law anymore than what we say against her in this issue is going to matter in even a few months.
jess
Well written post. I used to blog but having a child has limited my time to both read and write online and my blog is dying a slow death. I used to read Dooce as well as the blogs of those who have questioned her as a choice at this particular forum.
I agree with the original questions being asked about Ms. Armstrong's ability to speak to this issue. I'm not surprised that she didn't have much to add to the discussion. And I'm also not surprised that there has been such vehement backlash against those original dissenting opinions.
The thing that really gets me is that even if I were Dooce with the readership and support and desire to network and maximize income, I would have been scared shitless to go to such a high profile forum in the first place, probably knowing, as she must have on some level, that she really wasn't qualified to speak on this particular topic.
Additionally, I think it speaks volumes that upon her return, the first thing that was posted on Dooce.com is a rant about blog/blogger drama.
If I had just been at the White House and knew that millions of people who had never heard of me before might be watching/reading now, I'm not sure I would have chosen that type of post to open with.
Thanks for writing this. I wanted to write a similar post, but couldn't, as I'm too busy working well over 40 hours a week outside of the home. I'm angry that I have to work like that, and I'll admit that this anger affects a lot of things I do and say.
I did jump into the fray on Twitter that night, and was immediately attacked by the "famous blogger" cabal. What pissed me off about the whole thing was that those of us who raised questions or well thought-out points were immediately branded as "jealous."
No. We're. Not.
What we are is intelligent. And rational. And thoughtful. And involved. The only thing we don't have that the cabal does is a big platform.
I found the whole jealously meme insulting, juvenile and petty.
Have you ever had one of those days where when your mother-in-law says "How are you?" you hear "I can't believe my son married you and I'm looking for a way to get my grandchildren away from you before you ruin them?" Perhaps it is just me.
Imagine for a moment that you get a phone call.
"Hello, this is the White House. We are hosting a conference. We think that you and your perspective would be an asset to this conference. Would you like to attend?"
Do you answer, "No thank you. I'm sure there's someone more qualified" or do you answer, "Wow! The White House? You want ME!?!? Sure!"
This is a big deal. You are excited. This isn't something you asked for. You were sought out. You are stunned the White House knows about you and you assume that if they invited you it must be because your experiences pertain to the topic at hand.
Now, also imagine that as part of your normal daily business, you receive a lot of hate mail. A LOT. Hate mail that is so vicious you can barely believe such people exist. Hate mail that calls you all kinds of terrible names, insults your children, says they should be taken away from you, wishes you ill in manners unthinkable.
Is it possible, just possible, that in the swirling world of "Die, scum, die" that you live in, the question, "Why are you going? (neutral tone)" gets misinterpreted as "Why are YOU going? (accusative tone)" Especially if it is surrounded by other people who are actually saying hateful things?
I don't mean to imply that anyone here has said anything hateful. I just mean to give an example of why someone might be overly touchy about a topic.
@Angel B: I can see how someone could react that way. But you're the first person from Camp Dooce I've heard say anything like that, and I think a defensive, aggressive "SUCK IT, HATERS" screed is the wrong way to respond.
I read those accused of "hating." I saw people question why Heather, a (well-to-do) self-employed WAHM with a WAH-spouse would be chosen for a forum on workplace flexibility, given that she must have one of the most flexible possible workplaces. Heck, she and Jon have both talked COUNTLESS times about him/them in bed with the kids and dogs and laptops, working and family-ing at once, all warm and fuzzy-like. That's darned flexible. So people ask questions, and Heather's response is basically "eff you." I Twitter-queried Jon, who thought it was terrible of women to tear other women down (by questioning the fitness of someone ostensibly chosen to represent them to...represent them), and he just said that people basically told Heather "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG." I followed up with a question on where the "hate" was, because I legitimately hadn't seen anything I thought was hateful, just puzzled, and he basically said if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you (said he wouldn't disclose because he didn't want to send traffic the haters' way). Someone else also asked, and he told her to Google it. She said she couldn't find these terrible comments. He basically said "well, I can't either, it's out there, whatever." So it sounds to me like Heather overreacted, and instead of recanting or calming down or whatever, she flipped the bird at those who disagree, and her husband basically said that women should support other women no matter what, and if we don't, it's unfair criticism and...basically hid behind the societal view that sexism is uncool to...say sexist things and tell women what they are and are not allowed to say.
None of which makes me inclined to try to see things their way. I've read and liked both Heather and Jon for years and years, but this has been a really unattractive display.
@Anonymous/jess: she stopped working outside the home long before she had Leta. What we don't know is whether she was invited to participate because she's a working WOMAN or a working PARENT...something she never disclosed. I think a far better response than "SUCK IT, HATERS" would have been to say "this is why they said they chose me, and I think I fit that well." Neither she nor Jon did that, they just got defensive and couldn't/didn't point to any actual, you know, hate. Leading me to believe that they are in the wrong, and unwilling to admit it because nobody really likes to do that. They have a whole pack of people who would never dream of questioning Heather, so there are plenty of people telling them that they're right. I just take huge exception to the idea that even though I've been around since the very early days of Doocedom, I'm a hater, or whatever, for not thinking everything she does or says is unquestionably right.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning (and I didn't understand the outrage either), it is just that you all that are questioning didn't do any research before questioning. Your immediate reaction was scratching your head. Why? You didn't have any idea what it was about. You made assumptions right off the bat that she wasn't right for the forum. You probably didn't even know about the forum until she mentioned it (nothing wrong with that). It is the immediate assumption that she wasn't right to "represent" some people. Do you know who else was on the panel? Did you check to see why she was chosen? My initial reaction wasn't "Why did they choose her"? It was, "YOU GO!!". I always assume that the planners of an event know who they want on the platform. If they chose her, who am I to say she's not the right person. You don't hate her or begrudge her success, but we all have to admit that so many out there do for some very odd reason.
Let's put it this way: I'm sure you might get a little defensive if every time you got a raise, promotion, or just a pat on the back, everyone in your department made snarky comments about you or questioned whether you deserved it or not. That would get tiring after a while, I'm sure. You might even get a little upset. Yes? No? Just me, okay then.
I don't twitter, and I really don't look this in depth in the comments (I read everyone of them) but this one got me. Heather is a good mother, she's a good person, she's become a icon for mommy-bloggers. But was she the right candidate for this forum for DC? No. I'm sure that mommy-blogging is difficult full-time. But does she represent the mothers who work outside of home full-time and away from their children? No. Her most recent blog, her daughter was crawling for the first time. How many of us lost that milestone? Or so many other milestones in our childrens life due to being at work? A woman working at home, on your couch, while your child is cooing right next to you is not the idle person to represent this particular topic.
Why not Always Home and Uncool ???
Well done
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